Advil for Flynns headache Options

[D.A. Kabatoff]

Steve recently answered some questions regarding tree and saddle fitting and I can honestly say that I feel your pain Steve everytime those questions come up. I don't think there is an easy way to answer them unless someone is in front of you and you can show them a tree.

I'm going to try and drive home some of Steve's points with the use of a few photos I have of a tree. One photo shows a fork stock thickness of about 4 1/2"s, measured from the back of the fork to the front (a wade tree is 5"s). Another photo is of the tree showing a gullet width at the front of 6 1/4"s. The last photo shows a ruler behind the fork with a measurement of just under 4"s; this is called the handhole width and for reference is normally measured before the rawhide is put on a tree. To give the best fit for the majority of western style horses, the handhole width should be 4"s wide. Everything forward of the handhole width can be considered bar flare and is there to prevent the bars from interfering with the shoulders. If you look at the photo showing the gullet width, you can see the bars flaring outward as they come forward from the area the handhole width was measured. This is important because the further forward the bars come, the wider the gullet width becomes. If you take two trees from the same maker, one being a Wade with a stock thickness of 5"s and the other being a 3B with a stock thickness of 4"s and both have a 4" handhole width, if they both have the same style of bar, they will fit identically but the tree with the 5" stock thickness will have a gullet measurement approximately 1/4" wider than the other tree. This is simply because the fork-stock thickness is longer from front to back so the bar has more length through the gullet to flare.

This essentially means that the gullet width does not affect fit the way people assume it does. What does affect fit is how wide the handhole width is. For colts and narrow withered horses, a handhole width of 3 3/4"s is appropriate. You could use a 4" handhole width and add an extra blanket to get the correct fit. For heavier horses a handhole width of 4 1/4"s is appropriate and again the saddle could be fitted to a typical horses back by adding a blanket. When people ask about the gullet width, I tell them that if the handhole width is correct for the style of horses being ridden, the gullet width will be what it will be.

If anyone wants to give Flynn a migraine, ask him to explain which is a better assesment of the actual room in the seat... the seat length measurement or thigh length measurement.

Darc

[Go2tex]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by D.A. Kabatoff:
[QB]If anyone wants to give Flynn a migraine, ask him to explain which is a better assesment of the actual room in the seat... the seat length measurement or thigh length measurement.
___________________________________

Or how about belly to horn clearance measurement? Now, *that's* important.

[liam nomano]

that's nice but what i want to know is How Did You Get The Pictures On Here?

[ranchroper]

Ditto; Liam if you figure it out post a pic of your saddle...

[Go2tex]

Displaying Images
To add a graphic within your message, just type:.

In the example above, the UBBCode™ automatically makes the graphic visible in your message. Note: the "http://" part of the URL is REQUIRED for the [img] code. Also note: some UBB forums may disable the [img] tag support to prevent objectionable images from being viewed.

[ May 05, 2006, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Go2tex ]

[ranchroper]

Uh...ya...okay

[Go2tex]

jes like this.....

[Go2tex]

Or maybe you'd prefer this............

[Go2tex]

Maybe this is more to your liking.........

[Go2tex]

OK, posting pics for dummies 101.

step 1. type [img] including the brackets.
step 2. type the URL address of the pic
including http://. like this:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/ranchhouse/images/...kelstein_03.jpg
step 3. type [/img]

You can get the URl address of any image by right clicking on the image and then click properties. Copy and paste the URL address that is listed. It can be on your own website or anywhere.

[ranchroper]

Thanks....nice saddle

[D.A. Kabatoff]

nice looking saddle Go2tex...who made that one? Now, that we've all had the picture posting seminar, anyone else got photos of their favorite rigs. The picture below is one I sold not long ago.

Hey Flynn, what're you working on these days?





[ May 06, 2006, 12:19 AM: Message edited by: D.A. Kabatoff ]

[flynsaddle]

here are a couple wades I finished up not long ago.


let me know if the photos don't work, if they do i'll try get some tree oics on here to show you guys some info.

[D.A. Kabatoff]

Nice looking saddles Steve, those Rod's or Glenn's trees in there?

[D.A. Kabatoff]

Hey Liam,

posting pics is easy but you have to have them on the internet somewhere to be able to do it.

Most internet providers give you a little web space to post pictures, etc... figuring out how to use it is a whole new ball of wax.

Once you have your photos on the internet all you do is click on the "image" button below the box you type your message in (under where it says "Instant UBB Code). It will ask you for the internet address of where your photo is posted and it will do the rest for you.

If you don't have anywhere on the internet where your photo is posted you are S.O.L.

If it helps, you could email me your photo and I can post it for you.

D.

[flynsaddle]

Darc, they are both on christman trees, I really am liking his work. the ruff out is an order and the border stamp I made to take to the kamloops show, it's still in the shop looking for a good home. I saw that rig of yours on ebay, look just awesome, very nice balanced lines to it. Just a real classy looking rig. the majority of the saddles that I build do not have 8 button seats and exposed leathers, but it seems like i'm getting more orders that way now. there fun to build and it make no differance to their useability (is that a word?) I like the lines on you seat jockey. thanks for helping out with the tree talk and the photos.

Go2tex, you are also doing some fine work, thats a good look carve job you did.

[Go2tex]

Thanks. It's one of my recent creations. Sold it to a guy in Germany. That chestnut and rawhide works real well together.

Darc, I saw your rig on Ebay too and was really impressed. You'll recall I emailed you about the border tool? I'm heading to Wyoming tomorrow for Saddle Week 3 and maybe I can find one like yours.

Maybe I'll run into you guys in Sheridan.

[D.A. Kabatoff]

Hey Steve,

I know what you mean about Glenn's trees. There's a few guys around making decent trees that I wouldn't hesitate to use, but Glenn's are just a bit more refined. He always puts nice lines in the forks and the lighter weight is nice too. Great guy to talk to as well, usually figure on an hour or more everytime I talk to him.

I've always liked the look of eight string seats but I get the odd person worried about raking their legs on the second string. If a guy gets it in the right position there really are no problems. Your saddle with the bucking rolls illustrates this point quite well.

The tree talk can really wear you down after a while, but I think it's really important with all the confusing information out there to take the time to explain this stuff. Sounds like you have a good grasp of the stuff and I think alot of people really appreciate it when you take the time to explain it. I think Rod and Denise Nikkel have really done a good job of educating saddlemakers.

Hey Go2tex, that's some really nice carving on that saddle. I didn't realize that was you asking about that tool... I actually tried finding your email address a few weeks ago... I think Bob Beard may be making that border tool. I got some bevellers from him a few weeks ago and saw in his catalog a tool that looked almost identical. If you see him in Sheridan, I think he calls them keyhole tools. Make sure you try a few out though cause like I said before it can be a really fussy tool if it wasn't cut just right. Wish I could make it to Sheridan this year cause I'm having a hard time finding some tools I need, just don't have the time to drive there. I'd probably never make it out of Don King's museum anyway and miss the whole show!

Darc

[johnmessner]

Hi Guys,
Just wanted to drop a line and say all three of you are making some pretty darn nice looking saddles. The craftsmanship, lines and styling are all top notch. Anyone should be proud to own such a rig. Keep up the good work.
John
www.cowboycompany.com

[liam nomano]

i appreciate that Mr. Kabatoff, we are going to be branding today, maybe i can get some good pictures to post.
liam