Full Version: Cavalry stop blues
The December issue has an article on using a "cavalry stop" as an emergency break in lieu of the usual one-rein stop, and though it repeats again and again the point that its safer and keeps the horse balanced, they never get around to a clear tutorial on exactly how to do it. Very frustrating... does anyone know where to get information about this technique?
I haven't gotten the Dec issue yet, but I don't use the one rein stop..never have. Instead I I use, I believe it was John Sharp's methoud (video - "Leads, Stops & ?something?". It teaches the rider to prepare the horse before asking by making sure his hind feet placement are under him, then using your seat and legs to tell him you're planning to stop before asking with the rein. Once they get the hang of it, I've seldom have to pull on the rein anymore 'cuz he'll stop instantly now by my seat and leg alone.
It'll be interesting to read about the Calvery stop and add it to my bag of knowledge...it's been said that a horse should know at least 3 different types of stops.
It'll be interesting to read about the Calvery stop and add it to my bag of knowledge...it's been said that a horse should know at least 3 different types of stops.
ya know what, I think that was Richard Shrake, not John Sharp. And might've been titled leads, backs and stops. it was a loooong time ago that I watched it, I may not remember the trainer or the title, but the lesson has stayed with me..and, imo, that's how it should be.
margaretd, What I got out of it is that you lift on one rein until the horse comes to a stop or slows down, whichever you want. The other rein is just to keep the neck from bending too much. In a way it is a varation on the one rein stop the horse just isn't bent around like a pretzel.
I've been doing pretty much what Curt talked about for a couple years and it does work.
Feel and timing play an important part in both styles.
Paul
I've been doing pretty much what Curt talked about for a couple years and it does work.
Feel and timing play an important part in both styles.
Paul
I have the same question. I understand it to be just as Paul described. I would like to know more about timing and feel since I am a new rider. I don't intend to hijack Margaretd's thread so I hope this is considered part of the original question on the Calvary stop. How does a new rider begin to understand when a horse is getting out of balance?
I have seen Curt in person a few different times. What he teaches at this clinics is to prepare the horse for this on the ground. When he is ground working the colts and they try to run off, he lifts their head with the lead rope and halter. When a horse raises its head, the horse has to slow drastically or stop. He gets the horse used to it on the ground and then when he starts riding them and if they take off a bit faster than he wants, he reaches forward on the rein and lifts up just like he did on the ground. They shut right down. He is right, bending them around in a one rein stop doesn't shut them down right away, they can still go forward with their neck flexed.
Well a one rein stop can still throw the horse off balence if it is running a strait line and didn't expect it. I have been working with a 7 year old horse on barrels and he is having a hard time staying balenced when I turn him. I think he just needs to quit being lazy or I'm not leaning right for him. I don't know which. Any way I was getting off topic. I think you're right NW, but I think it really depends on the horse.
quote:What I try to do is time the lift with his front foot. Let's say I was riding in a circle to the right. I try to time the lift with his inside front foot. I lift slightly in time with that foot as it is about to hit the ground and that slows it down. Another lift will stop it, usually. Now when I say lift, I lift as little as possible but as much as is necessary.
Originally posted by sparrowhawk:
I have the same question. I understand it to be just as Paul described. I would like to know more about timing and feel since I am a new rider. I don't intend to hijack Margaretd's thread so I hope this is considered part of the original question on the Calvary stop. How does a new rider begin to understand when a horse is getting out of balance?
When a horse is out of balance you'll feel him get tight through his body but it will be felt best in his feet. He'll be unsure of his feet so you'll feel his feet start taking short quick steps.
When you read Curts article he also says he does bend the horse but at a standstill to teach the horse to give to pressure and to get him ready for riding in a circle.
As I understand it the one rein stop came from the clinicians who had to come up with something to help riders quickly control thier horses in case they got into a storm. I was told once by a clinician who spent time with Tom Dorrance that the one rein stop, as taught by most clinicians, didn't come from Tom. This guy also says that it isn't any good unless it's hooked to the feet, and if it is then you don't need it. The guy that told me that was featured a while back on the cover of WH.
I'll add that if you feel you should use the one rein stop then by all means use it but your horse should be well prepared ahead of time before you ever really NEED it.
Paul
[ December 27, 2006, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: Paul ]
I agree that the one rein stop was something that evolved over time. While I deeply respect the work of the Dorrance boys, I don't think that just because they didn't do it, it doesn't mean it shouldn't be used. The basis for the one rein stop is that a horse slows down when it bends and then control can be restored. I feel that when clinicians talk about it, it is easier for many newcomers to use it in a more drastic fashion than a more experienced rider would. It is all about timing and feel.
And it depends on the horse's mood that day or if they want to listen, and lots of other things that could effect it. I agree with everyone so far, but you are leaving out the little stuff about the horse.
It sounds like the one rein stop is the equivalent to a "pulley rein" used in the english riding disciplines. I'm new to western riding, but I'd sure feel more comfortable stopping a horse in a straight line than turning quickly, perhaps throwing the horse off balance and falling down.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by sparrowhawk:
I have the same question. I understand it to be just as Paul described. I would like to know more about timing and feel since I am a new rider. I don't intend to hijack Margaretd's thread so I hope this is considered part of the original question on the Calvary stop. How does a new rider begin to understand when a horse is getting out of balance?[/QUOTE
there are probably more responses to this question but I havent read them yet! When you get off balance your horse is generally off balance for the first maybe 3 strides. A horse constantly compensates for the misjudgement of a rider, and most professional riders are constantly off balance too, its not something you really need to think about, if you let it happen naturally it will probably be better than if you constantly worry about where you are. A human brain tends to second guess the natural instincts creating the only real imbalances we have. Dont worry about that, it will develop with time its not really something that can be taught by another human; learning the balance of your chosen mount is something you learn purely by experience.
I have the same question. I understand it to be just as Paul described. I would like to know more about timing and feel since I am a new rider. I don't intend to hijack Margaretd's thread so I hope this is considered part of the original question on the Calvary stop. How does a new rider begin to understand when a horse is getting out of balance?[/QUOTE
there are probably more responses to this question but I havent read them yet! When you get off balance your horse is generally off balance for the first maybe 3 strides. A horse constantly compensates for the misjudgement of a rider, and most professional riders are constantly off balance too, its not something you really need to think about, if you let it happen naturally it will probably be better than if you constantly worry about where you are. A human brain tends to second guess the natural instincts creating the only real imbalances we have. Dont worry about that, it will develop with time its not really something that can be taught by another human; learning the balance of your chosen mount is something you learn purely by experience.
The question of effectively stopping a horse had been more than academic to me, because my horse, generally a very mellow guy, gets brain freeze now and then and takes off at flat-out, Kentucky Derby, run.
It happened again tonight--he took off, off-roading it, jumping bushes and logs, no attention AT ALL to anything I was doing on his back, completely unresponsive to voice and reins.
So, remembering the article, I several times leaned forward and yanked the left rein very high up. It made not a lick of difference. Turning him at that speed, if it were even possible given the relative strength of his stiffened neck and my puny arms, would have flipped him over like an SUV.
One question I have, for example, is does it matter what kind of bit you're using? Would this technique work better with a snaffle bit? Back to my original complaint, some of us out here need this information for potentially life-threatening situations, and I was disappointed that there wasn't enough there to be useful.
By the way, I finally fell off when he suddenly jig-jogged around a tree. He kept galloping all the way back to the barn.
We had a very intense time in the round pen afterwards...
It happened again tonight--he took off, off-roading it, jumping bushes and logs, no attention AT ALL to anything I was doing on his back, completely unresponsive to voice and reins.
So, remembering the article, I several times leaned forward and yanked the left rein very high up. It made not a lick of difference. Turning him at that speed, if it were even possible given the relative strength of his stiffened neck and my puny arms, would have flipped him over like an SUV.
One question I have, for example, is does it matter what kind of bit you're using? Would this technique work better with a snaffle bit? Back to my original complaint, some of us out here need this information for potentially life-threatening situations, and I was disappointed that there wasn't enough there to be useful.
By the way, I finally fell off when he suddenly jig-jogged around a tree. He kept galloping all the way back to the barn.
We had a very intense time in the round pen afterwards...
margaretd; the ONLY bit you do this with is the snaffle.
the whole one rein stop and now, cavalry stop is not a horse whisperer magic button. there is a certain amount of training involved in obtaining the proper response.
the whole focus of any natural horsemanship program is pressure and release, for example,(and you had better get this down pat in the corral, instead of the pasture) you and Speedburner are walking quietly in the roundpen, you pick up one rein and bend your horse gently placing the heel of your foot on the same side just behind straight down, to signal the hind end to break over , he turns to whatever side you are pulling on and turns around in circles for awhile, you maintain your pressure until he steps away from your foot with his hindquarters and stops. immediately you release all pressure. rub his neck and tell him he's doing good. do this again and again until it becomes second nature. if he happens to run away in the corral,wait until the urgency goes out of the run and then put the pressure on him until he breaks over in the hind end and stops. you must keep the pressure on him until you get the desired result. if you dont, then you have rewarded him for doing the wrong thing and he will try that to be free of the pressure next time.
please answer these questions. where are you? not your street adress just your state. how old is "Speedburner"? what have you been using in his mouth? and does this only happen when you are leaving the barn or does it happen in the corral too? what sets it off?
liam
the whole one rein stop and now, cavalry stop is not a horse whisperer magic button. there is a certain amount of training involved in obtaining the proper response.
the whole focus of any natural horsemanship program is pressure and release, for example,(and you had better get this down pat in the corral, instead of the pasture) you and Speedburner are walking quietly in the roundpen, you pick up one rein and bend your horse gently placing the heel of your foot on the same side just behind straight down, to signal the hind end to break over , he turns to whatever side you are pulling on and turns around in circles for awhile, you maintain your pressure until he steps away from your foot with his hindquarters and stops. immediately you release all pressure. rub his neck and tell him he's doing good. do this again and again until it becomes second nature. if he happens to run away in the corral,wait until the urgency goes out of the run and then put the pressure on him until he breaks over in the hind end and stops. you must keep the pressure on him until you get the desired result. if you dont, then you have rewarded him for doing the wrong thing and he will try that to be free of the pressure next time.
please answer these questions. where are you? not your street adress just your state. how old is "Speedburner"? what have you been using in his mouth? and does this only happen when you are leaving the barn or does it happen in the corral too? what sets it off?
liam
Liam is right on with what he said. I would only add this: When using a ring (O-ring, eggbutt, D-ring, etc.) you need to have a hobble strap on. That is a leather strap (a curb strap works well) fastened to the rings of the bit so you don't pull the bit through the horse's mouth. It needs to be loose enough so you are able to put the bridle on and not have the strap in the mouth.
Paul
Paul
I feel there are some things which need to be repeated from this thread and other throughts:
1. "Prepare the horse on the ground". This is before you need it in the saddle.
2. How long between rides? Was he fresh when you got on? Was he allowed to get the freshness out before the ride started? What is causing this brain freeze. Is this something you can detect a pattern in and reduce the risk of these brain freezes?
3. What is the purpose of spending intense time in the round pen after the fact. What was the purpose of this lesson? After the round pen work, did you get back on, tie him up to think about it? How long between the incident and the round pen? How does the horse relate the round pen to the brain freeze.
Things happen when riding, but what we do to prepare for them will reduce the need to use the STOP, but if you need the STOP, make sure you've worked it on the ground.
Good luck
1. "Prepare the horse on the ground". This is before you need it in the saddle.
2. How long between rides? Was he fresh when you got on? Was he allowed to get the freshness out before the ride started? What is causing this brain freeze. Is this something you can detect a pattern in and reduce the risk of these brain freezes?
3. What is the purpose of spending intense time in the round pen after the fact. What was the purpose of this lesson? After the round pen work, did you get back on, tie him up to think about it? How long between the incident and the round pen? How does the horse relate the round pen to the brain freeze.
Things happen when riding, but what we do to prepare for them will reduce the need to use the STOP, but if you need the STOP, make sure you've worked it on the ground.
Good luck
Thanks for the interest, as this is a really serious problem for me.
"Speedburner," aka "Jack," was given to me two years ago with no history at all attached--I don't even know his original name. He's a short, big-boned quarter-horse mongrel, probably ten years old. The farrier who gave him to me described him as "Okie broke" but claimed he knew nothing about him or how he had been used.
Jack's done this berserk thing a number of times, to four different riders, including me (none expert). Once he was in the corral with my son on him and took off from a nervous standstill. Once I was walking along the trail on foot with my friend, who was riding him, and I jogged ahead twenty feet ahead, inspiring him also to jog and then break into a run... and so forth on at least five additional occasions.
What do these episodes have in common? Mainly, I think, that he felt he could get away with it; and yet what catches you off guard about him is that he is a very even-tempered, unflappable, accommodating, reasonable, tolerant horse. Doesn't complain even if you interrupt his supper to ride. Lets you scramble on his back bareback without moving. Doesn't mug you for treats, waits for permission before eating his hay. I"ve taken him out alone for four hour rides in the BLM wilderness (California) and had him rock solid.
He has not needed the freshness taken off him generally because he's an EPSM horse and has suffered from chronic intermittent stiffness and lameness--takes a lot of warming up at a walk, very reluctant to canter. So on good days, maybe his lack of real grounding, which had been masked by his physical inabilities, suddenly shows through. I've had him on the EPSM oil diet since October and he seems to have had a breakthrough; athletically, he's been like a different horse this last three days--canters, jumps, turns on a dime--amazing.
In this last instance, the sense I mainly got from him was just a raw yearning to run. Certainly there was no fear involved.
I've gotten to the place where I can tell when he's going to bolt, because he starts setting his own pace and becomes hard to break out of it with a one-rein stop. In the past, I've immediately halted him and distracted him with arbitrary turns and obstacles and not let him get out of a walk, because when it happens, it happens fast. I could sense it happening the other night, by the way, but chose to ignore it, to my peril.
In answer to why did I work him in the corral the other evening after his bender, my reasoning was that though he trotted nicely into his stall, he should not have his jammies put on and be tucked away as if nothing happened. Lecturing or punishing seemed pointless; but If he wanted to run, run we would--I put him in the arena and lounged him and he galloped and kept moving with little inducement, which he's never done before. Then, since his tack was still on, I got on him and we cantered and trotted, stopped, turned, etc, at a brisk pace. Then since he was really blowing, we cooled down by walking around the trails for over an hour, me making him do things that didn't make too much sense and trying not to let him take one step to the left or right by his own initiative.
I am not remotely an expert in how he should have been handled, so to you are really experienced horsemen, what would you have done?
I thought he would be sore the next day, but he wasn't--I am floored by his improvement in health. But as his health improves, this may become more and more a problem.
"Speedburner," aka "Jack," was given to me two years ago with no history at all attached--I don't even know his original name. He's a short, big-boned quarter-horse mongrel, probably ten years old. The farrier who gave him to me described him as "Okie broke" but claimed he knew nothing about him or how he had been used.
Jack's done this berserk thing a number of times, to four different riders, including me (none expert). Once he was in the corral with my son on him and took off from a nervous standstill. Once I was walking along the trail on foot with my friend, who was riding him, and I jogged ahead twenty feet ahead, inspiring him also to jog and then break into a run... and so forth on at least five additional occasions.
What do these episodes have in common? Mainly, I think, that he felt he could get away with it; and yet what catches you off guard about him is that he is a very even-tempered, unflappable, accommodating, reasonable, tolerant horse. Doesn't complain even if you interrupt his supper to ride. Lets you scramble on his back bareback without moving. Doesn't mug you for treats, waits for permission before eating his hay. I"ve taken him out alone for four hour rides in the BLM wilderness (California) and had him rock solid.
He has not needed the freshness taken off him generally because he's an EPSM horse and has suffered from chronic intermittent stiffness and lameness--takes a lot of warming up at a walk, very reluctant to canter. So on good days, maybe his lack of real grounding, which had been masked by his physical inabilities, suddenly shows through. I've had him on the EPSM oil diet since October and he seems to have had a breakthrough; athletically, he's been like a different horse this last three days--canters, jumps, turns on a dime--amazing.
In this last instance, the sense I mainly got from him was just a raw yearning to run. Certainly there was no fear involved.
I've gotten to the place where I can tell when he's going to bolt, because he starts setting his own pace and becomes hard to break out of it with a one-rein stop. In the past, I've immediately halted him and distracted him with arbitrary turns and obstacles and not let him get out of a walk, because when it happens, it happens fast. I could sense it happening the other night, by the way, but chose to ignore it, to my peril.
In answer to why did I work him in the corral the other evening after his bender, my reasoning was that though he trotted nicely into his stall, he should not have his jammies put on and be tucked away as if nothing happened. Lecturing or punishing seemed pointless; but If he wanted to run, run we would--I put him in the arena and lounged him and he galloped and kept moving with little inducement, which he's never done before. Then, since his tack was still on, I got on him and we cantered and trotted, stopped, turned, etc, at a brisk pace. Then since he was really blowing, we cooled down by walking around the trails for over an hour, me making him do things that didn't make too much sense and trying not to let him take one step to the left or right by his own initiative.
I am not remotely an expert in how he should have been handled, so to you are really experienced horsemen, what would you have done?
I thought he would be sore the next day, but he wasn't--I am floored by his improvement in health. But as his health improves, this may become more and more a problem.
Oh, in answer to question: he's done this under a Tom Thumb, mechanical hackamore, and curb bit. I'm borrowing a John Lyon snaffle from my friend tomorrow and to see how he does. Teeth seem to be fine, have contacted dental specialist for checkup.
He's been a picure-perfect attentive, good boy this last two days since, by the way. I have explained to him that horses who kill their owners end up looking out from the inside of a dog-food can. But now with this new legislation, I'm not sure I can make even that threat.
He's been a picure-perfect attentive, good boy this last two days since, by the way. I have explained to him that horses who kill their owners end up looking out from the inside of a dog-food can. But now with this new legislation, I'm not sure I can make even that threat.
Oh, in answer to question: he's done this under a Tom Thumb, mechanical hackamore, and curb bit. I'm borrowing a John Lyon snaffle from my friend tomorrow and to see how he does. Teeth seem to be fine, have contacted dental specialist for checkup.
He's been a picure-perfect attentive, good boy this last two days since, by the way. I have explained to him that horses who kill their owners end up looking out from the inside of a dog-food can. But now with this new legislation, I'm not sure I can make even that threat.
He's been a picure-perfect attentive, good boy this last two days since, by the way. I have explained to him that horses who kill their owners end up looking out from the inside of a dog-food can. But now with this new legislation, I'm not sure I can make even that threat.
margaretd; if this horse were a colt i would say the one rein stop will fix it, but, i need more information. do his runaways ever result in him running into anything full on? and, does he ever runaway in any direction other than the barn?
He's run away three times in the big arena, simply bolting till the rider falls off when he jjigs abruptly at a fenceline (plus his canter is bouncy and you tend to lose your stirrup), several times on the dunes around the barn or within a five or ten minute walk, and a couple of times a little further away and out of sight.
I try to ride him every day, even if only for half an hour. The last time I hadn't ridden him in three days and the time before, I'd had foot surgery and it had been three weeks.
He has never run into anything. He's not running blindly.
I try to ride him every day, even if only for half an hour. The last time I hadn't ridden him in three days and the time before, I'd had foot surgery and it had been three weeks.
He has never run into anything. He's not running blindly.
Sorry, didn't answer the point of your question--he always goes back to the barn.
some horses buck, some try to rub you off on a tree or post,others turn over backwards. your horse is somewhat barnsour with a need for speed.
here is something that might help. pick a day when you can take all day to work with this horse. what you are focusing on is making the barn more work and pressure than anywhere else. the next time he runs off with you, ride him. he will take you to the barn do not try to direct him except to protect yourself. in fact get after him, make him feel more pressure when he is focusing on the barn. keep him moving do not let him stop.he will run up and down the fence, you will keep hurrying him with your legs and body, not your hands. pick a spot away from the barn and focus on it, every time your horse goes by that spot look at it and shift your weight towards it, do not overtly steer him there. after awhile he will start looking for relief but keep hurrying him. if he should shift his focus away from the barn (and the pressure) relax,thus showing him that away from there is the quiet place. as soon as he turns back to the barn, and he will, hurry him again. eventually, he will leave the fence and head for the spot you are focusing on.relax your body, you can help him a little with your hands . as soon as his attention leaves the barn and he walks away to your focus point, stop him, rub on his neck, tell him how great he is. then get down, loosen your cinch and lead him to the barn. he is done for the day. make sure you let him cool out before you put him away.
i have seen this exercise take four or five hours before the horse has enough so plan on all day. also you can wear off the effect of this exercise by doing it too many times. after maybe twice just ignore his looking at the barn and go on about your day.
liam
here is something that might help. pick a day when you can take all day to work with this horse. what you are focusing on is making the barn more work and pressure than anywhere else. the next time he runs off with you, ride him. he will take you to the barn do not try to direct him except to protect yourself. in fact get after him, make him feel more pressure when he is focusing on the barn. keep him moving do not let him stop.he will run up and down the fence, you will keep hurrying him with your legs and body, not your hands. pick a spot away from the barn and focus on it, every time your horse goes by that spot look at it and shift your weight towards it, do not overtly steer him there. after awhile he will start looking for relief but keep hurrying him. if he should shift his focus away from the barn (and the pressure) relax,thus showing him that away from there is the quiet place. as soon as he turns back to the barn, and he will, hurry him again. eventually, he will leave the fence and head for the spot you are focusing on.relax your body, you can help him a little with your hands . as soon as his attention leaves the barn and he walks away to your focus point, stop him, rub on his neck, tell him how great he is. then get down, loosen your cinch and lead him to the barn. he is done for the day. make sure you let him cool out before you put him away.
i have seen this exercise take four or five hours before the horse has enough so plan on all day. also you can wear off the effect of this exercise by doing it too many times. after maybe twice just ignore his looking at the barn and go on about your day.
liam
Good points, Liam. Make the easy thing hard and the hard thing easy. Keep that in mind folks, and horse training is a whole lot easier.
I was going to add my two cents, but looks like Liam pretty much covered it. So I'll just agree ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Liam, thank you for taking the time to answer and for the benefit of your experience.
If I may ask, how would you tweak this given the orientation of the barn--which is an equestrian center in a suburban surrounding, with apporach via both paved roads and trails. It has a main driveway, which is always wide open, but Jack has also run just to the perimeter road and stopped and grazed till caught.
Beyond the perimeter road, on three sides are a swath of about 200 yards of dunes, bordered by a busy road. Crossing the road at one place leads to BLM land. On the fourth side is no perimteer, just a neighborhood street. So there are many points of access and not necessarily a fence to arrest him if he's out of control.
Also, someone suggested I make sure that after a trail ride, I ride him into the arena and work him at speed. What do you think of that?
If I may ask, how would you tweak this given the orientation of the barn--which is an equestrian center in a suburban surrounding, with apporach via both paved roads and trails. It has a main driveway, which is always wide open, but Jack has also run just to the perimeter road and stopped and grazed till caught.
Beyond the perimeter road, on three sides are a swath of about 200 yards of dunes, bordered by a busy road. Crossing the road at one place leads to BLM land. On the fourth side is no perimteer, just a neighborhood street. So there are many points of access and not necessarily a fence to arrest him if he's out of control.
Also, someone suggested I make sure that after a trail ride, I ride him into the arena and work him at speed. What do you think of that?
i would work him hard before i went out, that way he ends up looking forward to leaving\relaxing.
one method that has been explained to me(but i have not used yet) is to work him in a figure 8 outside of the barn. just hurry him in the direction of the barn and let him "relax" while going away, soon he will be looking forward to leaving.
liam
one method that has been explained to me(but i have not used yet) is to work him in a figure 8 outside of the barn. just hurry him in the direction of the barn and let him "relax" while going away, soon he will be looking forward to leaving.
liam
you have mentioned more than once that when the horse "jigs" at some obstacle that this is where you and your horse part ways.
here are a few tips to stay with him.
in order to ride a fast turning horse you have to get your weight back and your feet ahead.some people call it "sitting on your pockets", or "turning your belt buckle up". either way the effect is the same, you sort of jut your pelvis ahead.
do not grab your saddle horn. it is not a handle,and will only pull your weight forward. if you need to hold on to something rig up a nightlatch. some people use a leather strap with a buckle,others use a piece of rope. put it around the fork of your saddle next to the horn. when you grab it put your elbow on your thigh and try to pull the fork straight up and off of your horse. the angle of your hand will hold you down and not pull you forward. most right handed people prefer to put it on the left side of the fork, using their left hand.
do not take your eyes off of your horses head. this keeps you in sync with him and sets you up to stay with him on the turns. whatever you do, do not look at the fence, that is where you will land
liam
here are a few tips to stay with him.
in order to ride a fast turning horse you have to get your weight back and your feet ahead.some people call it "sitting on your pockets", or "turning your belt buckle up". either way the effect is the same, you sort of jut your pelvis ahead.
do not grab your saddle horn. it is not a handle,and will only pull your weight forward. if you need to hold on to something rig up a nightlatch. some people use a leather strap with a buckle,others use a piece of rope. put it around the fork of your saddle next to the horn. when you grab it put your elbow on your thigh and try to pull the fork straight up and off of your horse. the angle of your hand will hold you down and not pull you forward. most right handed people prefer to put it on the left side of the fork, using their left hand.
do not take your eyes off of your horses head. this keeps you in sync with him and sets you up to stay with him on the turns. whatever you do, do not look at the fence, that is where you will land
liam
Very interesting tricks, will try.
I found the thing about grabbing the horn to be true--at one point I thought, well, the most important thing is to stay on--maybe I'd better try grabbing the horn. So I did, but instantly could feel my balance go wrong, putting me in much greater danger of falling off.
I found the thing about grabbing the horn to be true--at one point I thought, well, the most important thing is to stay on--maybe I'd better try grabbing the horn. So I did, but instantly could feel my balance go wrong, putting me in much greater danger of falling off.
Cavalry stop is fine for trail riders and other plot around horses/people, but on a light horse, it can only serve to make them heavy and high headed. Furthermore, there is no truth to lifting a horses head to slow them. Horses can run with their mouths above their ears and you will just be that much more out of control.
The double (one reined stop) is really the tool when you are in trouble. It generally makes a horse lighter, and they won't run away with you. HERE IS THE THING: If you are going to double a horse, you do it before they ever run off with you. You do it when they are first thinking about it. If somehow you are so slow in reaction time that you can't double your horse before being run away with, you need to use one rein at a time and touch and release to bring them back to a balance, then double them.
Unfortunately, people in western saddles generally don't spend enough time learning how to do things with an instructor. My family is in 3-day eventing, but I have split off for the California bridle horse. People who ride at our farm often take 2 lessons a week (one group jumping, one private dressage). There is no substitute for someone there watching you and helping you. To learn about bridle horses, I read and practiced for a couple years, then I went to work for a trainer for the past 9 months. I was working 10-12hrs. a day, 6 days a week, 6-8hours each day spent on a horse's back. You have to put the time in if you are going to be any good.
BTW, I reccomend Ed Connell's "Hackamore Reinsman" and also like Dave Jones' "Practical Western Training". These are two real horsemen, both of which rode horses for a living and happened to write books, as opposed to the all too common "write books for a living and happen to ride horses when they need to be on TV".
The double (one reined stop) is really the tool when you are in trouble. It generally makes a horse lighter, and they won't run away with you. HERE IS THE THING: If you are going to double a horse, you do it before they ever run off with you. You do it when they are first thinking about it. If somehow you are so slow in reaction time that you can't double your horse before being run away with, you need to use one rein at a time and touch and release to bring them back to a balance, then double them.
Unfortunately, people in western saddles generally don't spend enough time learning how to do things with an instructor. My family is in 3-day eventing, but I have split off for the California bridle horse. People who ride at our farm often take 2 lessons a week (one group jumping, one private dressage). There is no substitute for someone there watching you and helping you. To learn about bridle horses, I read and practiced for a couple years, then I went to work for a trainer for the past 9 months. I was working 10-12hrs. a day, 6 days a week, 6-8hours each day spent on a horse's back. You have to put the time in if you are going to be any good.
BTW, I reccomend Ed Connell's "Hackamore Reinsman" and also like Dave Jones' "Practical Western Training". These are two real horsemen, both of which rode horses for a living and happened to write books, as opposed to the all too common "write books for a living and happen to ride horses when they need to be on TV".
quote:I wouldn't call Curt Pate a trail rider and one who just plots around. Curt is a rancher from Helena Montana who uses horses every day. He is also a well respected clinician. If you ever get a chance to see him you'll observe just how light his horses are. Besides the article that got this topic going there was an article in America's Horse on the subject. Good reading both.
Originally posted by Kentuckydiesel:
Cavalry stop is fine for trail riders and other plot around horses/people, but on a light horse, it can only serve to make them heavy and high headed.
Paul
Kentucky Diesel--If you read the article in WH where Curt talked about the Calvary stop, you will see where the one rein stop is a problem. Granted there may be many gifted horsemen like yourself that can identify a problem at the moment it is starting, but the reality is that way too many people hear of the one rein stop and then try to use it when their horse is running at a high speed. As Curt said, many wrecks have occured and a few of the riders suffered broken necks.
Curt logged many miles as a ranch hand and a rancher himself. I seriously doubt that his miles logged were as a trail rider.
Of all the trainers/clinicians I have seen and read about, Curt is one of them that I serioulsy listen to when he says something. Others repeat what other clinicians spew, Curt talks from his personal experience which is vast and well researched.
Curt logged many miles as a ranch hand and a rancher himself. I seriously doubt that his miles logged were as a trail rider.
Of all the trainers/clinicians I have seen and read about, Curt is one of them that I serioulsy listen to when he says something. Others repeat what other clinicians spew, Curt talks from his personal experience which is vast and well researched.
You guys misunderstood what I said. I'm not calling Curt Pate a "trail riders and other plot around horses/people", I was saying it is fine for these people, and someone has to teach them, Curt Pate did it..
It's funny, in horse and horse-person training, you have to teach different methods to those who don't intend to become more than just casual riders/horses. I am saying this method is not something that will do anything to help a horse become "more".
As far as using the one rein stop before the horse gets too strong, that doesn't take much skill. I don't consider myself particularly gifted, but I can sure tell when a horse is about to get too strong.
I'm sure the calvary stop works okay (with a high head as a possible side effect) if the horse is properly trained. I know my hackamore horse would stop fine doing this, but it's not the best way.
Also, I read the article.
-PHILLIP
It's funny, in horse and horse-person training, you have to teach different methods to those who don't intend to become more than just casual riders/horses. I am saying this method is not something that will do anything to help a horse become "more".
As far as using the one rein stop before the horse gets too strong, that doesn't take much skill. I don't consider myself particularly gifted, but I can sure tell when a horse is about to get too strong.
I'm sure the calvary stop works okay (with a high head as a possible side effect) if the horse is properly trained. I know my hackamore horse would stop fine doing this, but it's not the best way.
Also, I read the article.
-PHILLIP
I do whole-heartedly agree that the one rein stop can be dangerous. You obviously can't use it at full speed, but you can't use the cavalry stop either. I have had horses stumble with the one rein stop, but those were learning expieriences for me. The only way to know how far you can go is to push the limit and find out.
Sometimes you have to suck it up and take a little risk to learn something. Doing something half way to get around what you are worried about won't get you far.
Riding 1000lb-1500lb animals has never been a safe activity anyway.
-Phillip
Sometimes you have to suck it up and take a little risk to learn something. Doing something half way to get around what you are worried about won't get you far.
Riding 1000lb-1500lb animals has never been a safe activity anyway.
-Phillip
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