My husband and I have a fourteen year old Quarter horse mare, that is very hard mouthed. All she wants to do when you get on her is run, and It is very hard to stop her you have to spin her in a circle. Other than that she is a wonderful horse, She doesn't spook at things and she is easy to handle on the ground, This hard mouth thing is our only problem. We use her as a trail horse. Does anyone know of anything that we could do to help her get over this problem any help would be greatly appreciated.

I would get a curb bit with a vary larg curb in it. or a broke bit with copper rings. the curb helped me. or it might be a attitude thing that horses tend to have!!!!!!!!!!

Was this horse ever used for gaming? Doing barrels or poles, stuff like that?

This isn't a bit problem this is a training problem. You need to get this horse giving to the bit, stopping on cue and/or by voice command and working off leg and seat cues. Usually horses who are hard in the mouth are that way because of someone who is strong with their hands on a horses mouth, or because some gaming horses only know how to run. That was all they ever did, run, so they don't realize they can do other things. It can be fixed, it will just take a lot of retraining.

[ February 25, 2005, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: Mudder ]

Good advice Mudder.

You could try checking to feel if you are giving the right cues before. Are yous sitting deep in the seat, kinda like a sack of potatoes, and doing half halts if needed? It could be a miscue thing.

Or if it was a gaming horse good luck. We had an ex barrel horse a few years back and we never could get that out of his system, we ended up getting rid of him.

How long have you had her? How often do you ride.

If you are riding with a snaffle bit...see if she moves from a stop when you turn her head at a stop. If this is the case, she may be thinking the reins mean go.
If not, I would just simply work on stops. Don't get mad at her, don't get frustrated, just be patient. She's not running away out of meanness.....would you run your @$$ off for no reason?? A horse won't either.
Start from a walk, walk a while, then in one motion, sit back and apply pressure to the reins asking her to stop. Don't jerk her mouth or apply too much pressure, be light and take time. When she does stop, instanly give her her head for a second or two, then ask her to back up. When she walks and stops perfecly, work at the trot, then at the lope. Expect to invest a few weeks of riding on this. Also, when you are trotting or loping and she gets to running, try and adjust small things to see if it changes how she goes. Adjust your seat (mabey you are "turtleing up" when she gets out of control) to the back some, sit back, sometimes that makes all the difference. Make sure you aren't squeezing her with your legs.

Work with her, see what you can figure out. In my expierience, unless a horse is flat out being malicious which will require some dicipline, almost everything else is just a matter of presentation...if they horse doesn't understand what you want, present it to them a different way. Just make sure your release is timed well when they do what you want, then stick with what works. -phillip

We Had Dreamer for about three years now. She is mainly my husbands horse. He has a tendency to squeeze her sides with his legs. Anyway the other day he was riding on her and she was running around as usuall but when I got on her she just walked like I like to do. Maybe it's him the way he rides her or maybe she was already tired. I don't know. But I recently changed her from a Tom Thumb Snaffle bit to a loose ring snaffle. Because I've heard that a Tom Thumb could be kind of harsh. Thanks for all of the advice:) Does anyone think that the Parelli System level one could help me with her? Or do I need to send her to an expert trainer and get them to reschool her a little bit?

I'm not a big Parelli fan, but I'm not against him either. He does have some good things that can help the relationship you have with your horse. I'm more inclined to think a Clinton Anderson style of training would be more beneficial to you. But, if you have a good trainer in your area, it can't hurt to ask what they think. It may just be that this horse isn't working well with your husband. Each person has a different style of riding, that doesn't always mesh well between the rider and the horse.

I don't have personal experience with a Tom T bit. But any bit can be harsh if used by heavy hands. I've never used anything but a full cheek snaffle. But I don't show or anything like that either, so there really is no need for me to try anything different. It's working for me so I'm not about to try and fix it. You may just need some refresher training in the snaffle to get this horse working better. But that may mean taking this horse to an outside trainer for that training, if you don't know how to do that yourself.

For me I don't pull back on the reins to ask for the stop. I quit riding, sit deep in the saddle and relax, and that is my horses cue to stop. I'm working on getting the horse to stop just by saying whoa. To do that I ask by saying whoa, and if the horse doesn't stop within 5 seconds, then I do a couple tight circles into the rail, walk off the other direction for 20 ft and ask again. I repeat that until the horse learns that when I say whoa it's easier to stop than to keep working harder. If he stops I let him rest for a couple minutes and repeat the lesson. I never pull back on the reins, my reins are nice and loose. I just use the voice command. When he's really good at it at the walk, we'll move up to the trot, and then the lope. If he does stop but not as fast as I think he's able to or has in the past, we do the circle thing. It may take him for example 3 steps to stop but after that I don't allow 4, I'm looking for those 3 or down to 2, then 1 to an instant stop.

Yes, I agree with what the other posters have said.
Go slow, take your time, be sure the horse understands voice commands from the ground.
You might also try longing her to get her used to voice commands at all gaits.
Then work from her back, if possible in a riding ring so she can't run away.
And in the process of doing this, you might want to use a basic o-ring or eggbutt snaffle bit.
Praise and reward small progress.
And remember, PATIENCE is the mother of all virtues! So take your time and don't expect immediate results.
Best of luck and keep us posted.

Thanks you guys for all the help. My husband and I will try your methods. I think she may just need to be rode on more often, we don't have a lot of time on our hands, my husband works all the time, and I am not about to ride on his horse without him there, I am not a very brave rider, I've been burned a few times with horses. Dreamer is a very idle horse, we don't get the chance to ride her but once a week and then only for a few hours. I could work with her on the ground though, If I knew how to teach her some ground work, I think that is really what she needs but my husband thinks she won't learn unless he is in the saddle. I need to teach her what Whoa Means. I'll keep ya'll posted

I just thought that ya'll might like to see some pictures of Dreamer here is the link to my photos

http://community.webshots.com/user/awayfade

Thanks for all of your help:)

To start with outfit the horse in a good fitting rope halter and lead. You can do this anywhere. Walk with your horse for a few feet and then stop. At the same time you stop, say whoa in an authoritive type voice and apply downward/inward pressure toward the horses chest with the lead rope. When he stops, back him two steps, wait for a couple seconds and then repeat the lesson. Repeat it until the horse automatically stops and takes those two steps back by himself. You want this horse to associate stopping with backing up, meaning no more forward movement. Remember to praise this horse a lot when he does what you ask. Even if you have to tell him each time to back up. Once he stops good without you having to cue him with the downward/inward pressure on the lead rope, try the lungeline at a walk, and progress from there. Hope this helps you some.

Very nice looking horse you have awayfade. Has this horse always had the white spots on his withers? What I mean is did this horse come with those spots on his withers when you bought him? Those spots indicate a bad fitting saddle. Which may be part of this horses problem. How does this horse behave for saddling? If he figits and moves around a lot and looks like he hates the saddle, tries to bite, then this horse is in pain. Most likely in his withers and back. And this pain may contribute to the problem of his behavior. I'm wondering if that isn't a problem because you say he works better for you than your husband. Hubby is probably heavier which may make the saddle pinch him more, making him behave the way he does. If that is the case then you need to find a better fitting saddle. A blanket added or taken away will not fix this. You need a better fitting saddle period. If this horse came with those spots and they haven't gotten any larger, then you are probably ok in the saddle fitting department, and it's for sure a training problem you have.

Dreamer has always had those white spots on her withers every since we got her. They haven't got any bigger. I'am figuring that whoever had her before us was really heavy on her mouth. As they didn't have the right fitting saddle, if they had she she wouldn't have those spots. I think our saddle fits her okay, I've read some material on saddle fit. I would just like for her to start trusting us, so that she knows we don't want to hurt her mouth, but she makes this hard when she is running out of control. Also we have developed another problem with her, she thinks she is dominant over my husband. She pinned her ears back at him yesterday and started bobbing her head up and down. Like she used to do to my horse when we had her, she was dominant over my horse, and every time she was aggressive towards her she would bobb her head up and down. I appreciate all of your help Thanks~

Well that's good news that it's not your saddle. Ok first thing hubby has to realize is the horse you have on the ground is the horse you have under saddle. If she's being aggressive or domineering on the ground then she will be that way under saddle. So back down to the ground he needs to go and start working on manners and teaching this guy that he's not the boss, hubby is. If he doesn't, then this problem will get worse. This is where some of the Parelli stuff may come in handy for you.

I'm not a parelli fan either. Anyone who says you need any of those "toys" and other gimmicks is full of it. He's definately teaching the right way of doing things...just trying to make too much money off it and keeps you in the dark too much so he can keep making money. If you are willing to spend some time..the single cheapest-best thing you can do for yourself is pick up Tom Dorrance's book "True Horsemanship Through Feel"

I was raised and taught by family members that we were above horses and if they didn't do what we said, punish them. Now it was never abuse by any means...don't think that. I was taught by some of the best riding instructors in this area, but none of them knew how to work with horses. I finally got fed up one day after seeing my aunt (who was long listed for the olympic team in eventing) fighting my girlfriend's horse who was constanly running away. No one could "fix" him, my girlfriend was in tears all the time over it. I went looking at a book store one day, just trying to find a hint of a different way. I came across Tom Dorrance's book and remebering that I had just read about him in Western Horseman and thought he sounded like a neat guy, I bought it. Big book, something like $20-25. I started reading that book and couldn't stop.
Now, I've been riding pretty much all my life and have heald a few jobs caring for horses so I have tons of expierience with them but that coupled with his insights....It wasn't but a couple weeks and "Funny" (my girlfrind's horse) had gone through some huge changes. Fact is, his mind was toasted from not understanding what people wanted, getting punished for it, etc. I did some of the ground work stuff that Dorrance talked about, then looked at the way i was riding and how my girlfriend rode. Some slight changes and we both clicked with him. It's an amazing thing when you and your horse find a way to communicate as well as we have. Best part is, I know it can get even better.

Read that book, soak it in, take it to heart. If you have the time to do things right, it will help you a lot. -phillip

just trying to help not trying to throw her *&@$ off or @$#& anyone off the curb bit worked with me and it could help if it dosent than &*$% it.

i tell ya'all what you need to pull out the photo book and show her that you run this family. sink them spurs show her you the boss. trot some small rounds. without loosing temper or hurting the horse, KICK SOME ASS, COWBOY-UP on her ass. if she turns one way turn her the other way. gime a call at 17406062625 if you want.

Geez, Hoss, why are you being so harsh? You don't know this horse, or the person riding it. How can you give such advice?

Hoss said:

quote:

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i tell ya'all what you need to pull out the photo book and show her that you run this family. sink them spurs show her you the boss. trot some small rounds. without loosing temper or hurting the horse, KICK SOME ASS, COWBOY-UP on her ass. if she turns one way turn her the other way. gime a call at 17406062625 if you want.

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Easy friend. I tell ya what, I was taught that way and kept on until I was about 21yrs. old. Yea, it worked on many horses, but some it didn't. I finally got frustrated with my girlfriend's horse who forced me to find a better way and I believe I have. All the other horses I've worked with this way have responded much better than they ever had prior to my change.

All I'm saying it it's a good idea to give a horse a chance to respond to you working with them and communicating before you go to spur whipping them. -phillip

[ February 28, 2005, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: Kentuckydiesel ]