ShiCat thats a load a bull. My saddle doesnt fit my horse very well and i rode him hard all day yesterday from sun up litterally til dark, over incredibly rocky ground with only one hind shoe, and he came home sore free and sound, plus he lost that one shoe. We trotted over loose gravel and all, saddle fit has little to do with lameness, it causes soring in the back but its not what causes a horse to become lame.

good. i already have more business than i need anyway.

A horse that's sore in the back or shoulders could look "lame" when they're moving. Lameness is not always the result of legs and feet issues. However, I agree with graywolf that we try to have our saddle fit the majority of horses we ride, and we compensate with pads as required.
Hey rafter, what part of Wyoming are you in that's so rocky? I seem to to remember Rock Springs as being pretty rough country...

I'm not going to comment on lameness or soreness, but I recently heard an interesting talk while at the National Cowboy Museum in Oklahoma City. Joel Nelson was asked to give a lecture on what a cowboy looks for in a saddle. For those of you who don't know Joel, he has been a cowboy on some of the biggest and best outfits around North America and is a well respected horse trainer... he was also a custom saddlemaker as well; he has met and worked with some outstanding cowboys over the years and I think it's safe to say that he is well seasoned.

His lecture touched on a few issues which may sound contradictory, but I think when it comes to horses... many things seem contradictory. Joel touched on a few aspects of saddlefit but brought to light that many working cowboys have more than one saddle...often as many as four or five. The saddles serve different purposes such as starting colts or saddles with trees that are wider or narrower. When picking their string of horses for their work, cowboys will pick horses of a similar variety so that they can pick a saddle that will fit reasonably well and be adjusted with blankets if need be. He touched on the fact that he has seen cowboys who were told by cowboss's to either get a new saddle or pack their gear and get lost after coming back with both sore and lame horses. Joel dispelled a few myths as well including the idea that a well made saddle will last a lifetime. While this may be true for some people, for cowboys who ride long, hard hours all the time, even the best made saddles can be worn out in as little as five years.

The story that seem to encompass many good points was this: Joel had a saddle that was made by one of the best saddlemakers of our time, Chuck Stormes, that he rode all the time. He rode this saddle hard, often being gone for seven or eight days at a time and in rough mountainous country. The saddle had been in a good number of bad wrecks including being rolled on several times. After a bunch of years of abuse, the saddle was just plain worn out and Joel got the idea one day that he was going to rebuild the saddle. When he started taking the saddle apart he discovered that the tree was broken in several places including the cantle and the bars; It was beyond repair. In all the years he had cowboyed in that saddle he felt he had never sored a horse with it (beyond the usual tiredness a cowboy's horse will feel).

The next part to this story was about a cowboy that he worked with on one of the larger outfits in Texas. This fellow use to get a new custom saddle about every year from some of the best saddlemakers around. At the end of every year he would sell the saddle because he would consistently sore horses with it. Figuring there must be a problem with the saddle and saddlemaker, he would move on to a different saddlemaker and have the same problem. Incidentally there was another fellow on that ranch who got some outstanding deals on year old saddles.

The point of the above stories should be more less obvious, but for those who haven't or may never see the point, it's this; Saddlefit is important and people who are concerened about their horse's well being, whether they are a weekend cowboy or make their living on horseback will do their best to make sure the fit is reasonable. This said, saddlefit is one aspect of horsemanship, a good rider with a compromised saddle, or a bad rider with the best saddle will play a large part in how a horse comes in at the end of the day.

Darc

I can see that, DA...rider balance and position probably plays a part, too!

I'm waiting for rafterMK to blast me for my remarks...eeeks! No "personal" offense intended, rafter, really! And I don't think you abuse your horses, either; we just look at things from a different perspective.

I can see why you've been rated at a 5 Darc! You've definately earned it in my book.

Haha dont worry! im not mad. I just get annoyed once in a while (or as NW would say i have a bad hair day) and the other day i was up a little too late. Its not that i do it on purpose in fact i ride in a different saddle if i can, but it just wasnt possible that day. And we absolutely never ever wont/dont work on sunday so i couldnt get shoes on him the day before and had to ride early monday all day, came home put him out, and i had to go to work and tuesday rolled around and i just couldnt stick shoes on him. I was only trotting him so hard cause a) we had to cover quite a bit of ground, and i was trying to keep 35 head of cattle pinned in a spot with no fences on my own cause i couldnt use the fence (some hunters had snipped down the gate)and they all wanted to go a different direction, so they went along the trail and we trotted the rough hills. im saving to buy a better fitting saddle right now, but i have to ride anywhere between 8-15 different horses a month and couldnt fit one horse specificly and if i move on to a big ranch like i hope to do, i wouldnt be able to get a horse specific saddle fit. I did come off very brash... oops

were on the wyoming idaho line down below jackson hole (star valley). The west side of the valley. very pretty valley, were one of the final large connected properties left, everythings getting subdivided and sold off to the millionaires that cant afford jackson anymore.

Just to add a few thoughts and points

1. RafterMK
It sounds like your horse did very well without shoes. If this horse has good hooves and could handle the ride, why not consider going shoeless.

Well darn, hit the enter key too early!

D.A. Kabatoff - I really enjoy reading your information on saddles. You have the ability to grab my attention and not be too wordy, and yet, share great stories. I was in awe of the saddles you posted earlier and admire your trade.

rafterMK - People who cut fence lines are not hunters, they are slobs. I am sorry you were put in that position by these slobs. A true hunter respects the land, animal they are hunting and the individual who cares for both.
PS. Get your beauty rest, I enjoy reading your posts anyway!

Saddle fit - This is some great information. I've had lameness issues and have spent a lot of money on trying to get the right fit on my horse. Please keep these types of topics coming so I can continue to get information. Considering I only have one horse, I just try to find the best fit for him.
Thanks!

No they were hunters, but our gates are so tight that sometimes it takes two people to close em (snow drifts, they have to be stretched tight) and on a few of the less used ones i have to use a rope and dally. Thanks for all the; well, i consider them compliments so thanks all.

Ive thought of it (going without shoes) once or twice. If i move onto a ranch in texas i will, but probably not, i like him too much to run that risk without necessity (how do you spell that neccesity nesecity aw forget it).

[ November 02, 2006, 11:49 PM: Message edited by: rafterMK ]

I agree that a rider's horsemanship has a huge impact on saddle fit. That includes both their riding skill (balance, moving in synch with the horse) and their saddling skill(saddle and pad placement, cinching). I find it fascinating that my saddle fit improves as my horsemanship skill improves. My horse finds it fascinating too.

another weeks riding, and oddly enough, the only horse without shoes, and in a poor fitting saddle, is one of the only ones who didnt turn up lame. I give up, hes just a tough horse.