OK, I'm a cowgirl wannabe after training and competing in dressage for over 20 years. I've trained 2 horses to the FEI level (think top hat, tailcoat, dancing sideways and 2 time flying changes) and have earned both my USDF Bronze and Silver Medals. I may never get my Gold Medal, but find lately that it's OK. I really like riding western and learning about ranch work. I apply my dressage knowledge to my western riding and ride my Dutch Warmblood dressage mare both ways. (The joke is that I cross dress and my horse goes both ways...kidding of course!)

Anyhow, though I'm not giving up dressage, I would love to work with a cowboy (not just someone who rides in a western saddle) and learn how to rope, cut cattle, etc. My mare is currently 6 months in foal so I'd need to take lesson on/work their horse. If you all have any suggestions on who I can contact here in Southeastern PA, I'd appreciate them. I'm not interested in western showing, but am interested in learning "the cowboy way". Thanks Much! RR

You'll learn that working cows, especially cutting or roping, isn't that far from some of the dressage stuff it's just used to accomplish something.
If I were you I'd pickup some local Western related newspapers. Volunter to work a few places. You have so much to learn that getting to do it for free is about the only way most places can let you on there place. Look on the net and find yourself a legal release and tell the owner/person in charge that you take your own chances. They for sure can't afford a novice cowboy getting hurt and then sueing them, or maybe the survivors sueing them. Doing Cowboy work is very satisfying but doesn't pay squat and can dang sure be dangerous. I've seen Cowboys, including my son, go down and you'd imagine that neither the horse or rider could survive! Also put the word out at Western Tack Shops and feed stores. Even if all you're doing is gathering some dairy cows you'll be learning to cowboy.
Have fun, be safe, let us know how ya do!

Roan Ranger - Want to switch places? LOL I have always wanted to learn to ride dressage. I think it is a beautiful art both in terms of the rider's and the horse's skills. This past year I have been learning some ranch work skills myself, and it really is a lot of fun. I hope you are able to find something way up there. I am in the reverse dilemna in finding somewhere worthwhile to learn dressage. I'm not losing sleep over it though, but it would be nice to learn someday! Good Luck!

Mike, Dangerous? How so? Curious as to what I'm getting into. I sure can ride and can Cowgirl Up if needed, but you make it sound like I'm taking my life in my hands...

Ext Cowgirl, Dressage and good western riding are very similar. Position, balance, feel, timing and good horse sense. Good dressage riding is about the training not the tricks, just like good western riding (I assume). Maybe a good working cattle ranch vacation is in order. No, not a "dude" ranch, but a real working cattle ranch where you're bone tired at the end of the day, knock back a few beers with friends, and do it all over again the next morning. If I want entertainment I'll stay home.

because you are... cows and horses when put together can be very dangerous, but also the root of the word fun, not to mention tasty.

Vacation time on a working cattle ranch would be good for you if you want to see what you're getting into, although it still won't be the same as actually working. Even on a working cattle ranch vacation, their job is to see you don't get into too much trouble. It's a different world when you are miles from anywhere, alone and relying on your horse & yourself to get the job done. The unpredictability of animals & weather can make for some interesting days to say the least.

might i just add those are two things i never thought i'd ever here associated; Pennsylvania and ranchwork i mean.

I totally agree. I ride and train reining and cutting horses, and the skills required to are the same as riding dessage. Its refinded and takes a lot of patience and skill.

I never heard of "Real Cowboys" on the eastern coast.

So, I guess you all have never heard of the King Ranch?? They have sold their land in PA, but it was a very large working cattle ranch located about 1/2 hour from where I live. Hollywood Cowgirl, I agree. The country's largest dressage show is located here in PA. Several years ago the exhibitions included reining freestyles. Alot of the movements/patterns are the same, just executed differently. So does anyone have suggestions for a good ranch working vacation spot?

Roan Ranger, cow work can be dangerous because cows are not the brightest critters God ever made, they are quite large and have no qualms about running over you to accomplish whatever goal they have in mind. Pansy, our old pet former bottle calf, once flattened my mother trying to get the feed bucket she was carrying. Pansy wasn't being mean, she just wanted the feed.

Also, real cow work (not team penning and cutting) is a lot more than just riding around on a horse moving them from point A to point B. Feeding, doctoring, sorting, loading, etc. require that you get up close and personal with the cows, often on foot and under less than ideal conditions. So it can be dangerous.

Look through the ads in WH and yo'll see places that let you get a taste of being a Cowboy,er Girl.
And yes I've worked with some Cowgirls who really knew their stuff.
Working cows has it's dangers but so does driving to the corner store, eating exotic food and sex. It's just part of living. I wouldn't trade getting to Cowboy for all the rice in China! Just do it with your head on straight. Ask, watch and don't be ashamed to admit that you don't know or need some guidance!

Roan Ranger...

I'm in southern NJ and am a former DQ. now, have a foundation bred QH and am having way too much fun.

first, hell yeah we've all heard of King Ranch. My daughter's trainer was one of their trainers at the main place in Texas in the 70's. Oh, btw, she leaned dressage from the late, great and "father to dressage in america" Colonal Carmona.

a good place to look is in southern NJ. one of the reining greats, Rocky Dare is in Salem County. There's a bunch of ropers (head out to cowtown rodeo on a saturday night...four miles from the Del Mem Bridge), or stop at route 40 circle tack and talk to Bruce..he's an old time roper (back in the day when Madison Square Garden still had rodeo) and can probably point you in some directions.

There's a woman (can't remember her name...) works at Rick's in Cream Ridge who is an awsome roper and gives lessons.

Betsey

Mike, Thanks for your input. I guess cattlework (off the horse) does sound dangerous at that. I guess you can't just sit up there and move/cut cattle all day without gettin' down (unless it's for a bathroom/bush? break). Maybe a "working ranch" vacation is in order. The only problem is that I have to fly. Now THAT'S scary, even before 911! I agree that life in general is risky. That is why I stay out of the city. I moved to Amish Paradise over 8 years ago and have never looked back.

Betsy, Yes, I've heard of Rocky Dare and Cowtown. Are they still rodeoing this time of year? I will pay a visit to the Circle 40 tack shop too. I also agree that riding western is way too much fun. I have subscriptions to "Dressage Today" and "Western Horseman" magazines and I always go for the Western Horseman first. And, I'd rather shop at The Outback Trading Company and Tractor Supply than the mall. Thanks Guys, RR

Roan Ranger--

Cowtown runs saturday nights from may through september, so they aren't running. however, if you were to call their offices, they m ight be able to point you in some directions.

betsey

also, there is a farm in buena that does team penning and sorting year round.

i think what you looking for, is not so much, how to do real ranch work, but "how to have fun in a western saddle on my horse"....lots of places, you just need to investigate a little. look for any western discipline barns...they might be able to help.

betsey

Pack your bags a run, do not walk, away from PA. There are plenty of places in the western US that would take you in.

Quite a few years ago a lady from the eastern US moved to ND for a job. She was a dressage rider and showed hunter jumpers. She ended up marrying a ND rancher. It was kind of funny in the beginning, she claimed she could do anything in her English tack that we could in our western saddles. She had a Trakanter (sp) mare that she thought she could make into a cow horse. She ended up selling it and is now riding ranch type horses and says her English days are long behind her.

Thanks for the tips, Betsey. I would love to have more fun in addition to trail riding in my western saddle, but I personally don't care for the showing aspect with the bling and QH's that move so slow they look crippled. Team penning, roping, cutting cattle, rodeo...now that looks fun! It'll have to be on someone else's horse for a while since "Maude" is 6 months pregnant.

NW, If I was young and single, and at this place in my life...I'd be packed and gone! But, I'm married (21+ years), have 3 horses, a boarder and have 5 cats. I also teach and train, so my income lies in this area. It'd be hard to convince my husband to change jobs, pack up, and head west. I can still dream though. And I have no problem going west for a vacation with friends instead.

There is a western barn in Allentown, PA (about 2 hours north of me) that also runs clinics with Buck Brannaman, Greg Eliel etc. I'll call them too. Thanks for all your help and advice. RR

Roan Ranger...

i know that barn! they do a lot of fun things, and if memory serves me correctly, cutting, roping, reining, etc.

In addition, the Pennsylvania reining association (forget it's realy name) holds its big show at the NJ horse park every september.

i do know what you mean about the crippled QH gaits (we show palomino, which believe it or not, ARE better than what you see in the qh stuff...). It has to do with a concept called a spur stop. A few months ago horse and rider did an excellent article on it. essentially, it has its background in judges pinning horses with an extremely long rein drape, no contact, etc....these horses are trained that instead of moving forward off of a spur, they actually slow and stop to it (i know, it seems contrary to me too!). as a result, you see horses that are cripple gaited, heads going up and down and looking tucked up, with unnatrually round backs (NOT a bascule). All signs of a spur stop.

and no, we don't use it!

Betsey

Hi Betsey, I did read about the spur stop in Horse & Rider. As a dressage rider, the spur stop makes no sense to me. What I have seen at a few local shows are horses moving at a jog so slow that it looks like they're gonna stop, and a 4 beat lope that looks like they're gonna fall down. Contradictory to what we dressage riders do. Glad to hear that the Palomino shows are not this way. If there are any shows coming up in the SE PA or NJ area let me know. I'd like to watch and learn. Good horsemanship is good horsemanship! Of course my dutch warmblood mare moves so big that I couldn't make her jog and lope if I tried. Trail rode a couple of days ago and spooked up some buzzards. Scared poor Maude half to death (she was always ridden in an arena until last summer). I guess the western terminology would be a roll back to lope. In dressage language we did a 1/2 pirouette to extended canter! Trail riders...spin and bolt. Gotta love them saddle horns. That's twice it has saved me from buying a piece of real estate. Do you ever come over to Fair Hill to trail ride? RR

RR how is the cowgirl dream? Any luck? It would be nice to hear how that's gone for you.

Carl