I'm getting ready to have a saddle built, this will be my first Wade, and I'm really surprised that's what I want now. But they're really appealing.
My question is, what's the pro or con of the exposed stirrup leathers? I don't ride hard, just trail and some team penning.
Also, this particular saddle will have inskirt rigging. Any pro or con to that?
Ok, one more since I have y'all, choice of Mexican or dally horn. What's the difference?
Thanks!!!
Full Version: Wade saddles, pros and cons of fenders. etc?
My two cents and that's all it's worth:
Can't say much about the tree, since I think that swells on saddles, rather than bucking rolls, were an improvement over bare slick forks, but to each their own.
That the fenders are above the jockeys should not bother you any and it will give your legs more freedom.
Some of todays new cowboy saddles are made somewhat like that, definitely an improvement for us short legged folks.
Here is what many of our local (TX Panhandle) working cowboys are using today:
http://www.oliversaddle.com/catalog/item/5...988.htm#image_1
When doing heavy roping, you don't generally want in skirt rigging behind, not because it can't be as strong, which it can if well made, but the pull on the skirts behind has been said to rub on some horses.
Here is a Wade saddle with in skirt in front, but not behind:
http://www.oliversaddle.com/catalog/item/547563/3641792.htm
For most other riding, in skirt rigging all around may make the saddle a little lighter and will have less bulk under the leg.
Will be interesting to read what others think and how it changes by region.
Can't say much about the tree, since I think that swells on saddles, rather than bucking rolls, were an improvement over bare slick forks, but to each their own.
That the fenders are above the jockeys should not bother you any and it will give your legs more freedom.
Some of todays new cowboy saddles are made somewhat like that, definitely an improvement for us short legged folks.
Here is what many of our local (TX Panhandle) working cowboys are using today:
http://www.oliversaddle.com/catalog/item/5...988.htm#image_1
When doing heavy roping, you don't generally want in skirt rigging behind, not because it can't be as strong, which it can if well made, but the pull on the skirts behind has been said to rub on some horses.
Here is a Wade saddle with in skirt in front, but not behind:
http://www.oliversaddle.com/catalog/item/547563/3641792.htm
For most other riding, in skirt rigging all around may make the saddle a little lighter and will have less bulk under the leg.
Will be interesting to read what others think and how it changes by region.
A lot of what you're asking depends on what you'll be using the saddle for.
I've had two custom saddles built with Sam Stagg rigging. I like it because to me it seems to give move leg room and it's very easy to work on or repair if that ever comes up.
Will you be using a rear cinch? I use mine but one of my old cowboy friends always has his removed and a 7/8 rigging put on. Are you getting a square skirt or dovewing?
If you're just riding for fun some of the stuff doesn't matter.
I've had two custom saddles built with Sam Stagg rigging. I like it because to me it seems to give move leg room and it's very easy to work on or repair if that ever comes up.
Will you be using a rear cinch? I use mine but one of my old cowboy friends always has his removed and a 7/8 rigging put on. Are you getting a square skirt or dovewing?
If you're just riding for fun some of the stuff doesn't matter.
http://www.legacysaddles.com/catalog/productpage.asp?cat=1
My QH saddle looks a lot like the #11 shown here.
My Draft Cross saddle looks like #9 but with a square skirt.
My QH saddle looks a lot like the #11 shown here.
My Draft Cross saddle looks like #9 but with a square skirt.
the stirrup leathers dont really make any difference either way,it might just be more work for your saddle maker.Get what you want and think looks good.
The riggin is another matter, while the inskirt is a little narrower, many saddle makers dont anchor the riggin to the tree very well,make sure that you see more than just a couple of nails and the saddle strings holding the skirt to the bars.
The horn, i dont really like a #4 dally roper just because my forearm gets pretty bruised up when i rope at brandings, i dont care for a horn more than about 3.5 inches high, after that its mostly aesthetics although a guadalahara horn will cause the rope to run to the bottom where it should be.
Who are you going to order from?
liam
The riggin is another matter, while the inskirt is a little narrower, many saddle makers dont anchor the riggin to the tree very well,make sure that you see more than just a couple of nails and the saddle strings holding the skirt to the bars.
The horn, i dont really like a #4 dally roper just because my forearm gets pretty bruised up when i rope at brandings, i dont care for a horn more than about 3.5 inches high, after that its mostly aesthetics although a guadalahara horn will cause the rope to run to the bottom where it should be.
Who are you going to order from?
liam
It'll be used only for trail/show/light team penning. I prefer to use a rear cinch, but if the saddle fits and is balanced better than the ones I've had previously I may not need one. I use a rear cinch very snugged up, not loosey goosey. Helps keep the saddle level and distribute weight and pressure better, I've found.
I wonder if the exposed stirrup leathers would wear more on the fende or be harder to clean? I'm not sure yet which look I prefer.
Liam, I think I'm going with a maker that has a great price, as I have few $$$ to spend. I'll email you the link, don't want to publicize it. He says he works with 2 tree companies (not sure which ones yet, will ask we we speak on the phone next week), uses Hermann oak and real sheepskin. His saddles are pleasing to my eye. I have not seen one in person, however. I realize that this may be a gamble, but we shall see.
You guys here, on past posts, have certainly helped me learn alot about saddles.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Is a Mexican horn the wide low one? I've tried to find pics of one, haven't yet.
Oh, I like the wade trees because they seem lower and more out of the way. I used to ride English, and prefer a saddle that is not real restrictive, but still has structure.
Is the shovel cantle a pain? Am I going to want a seat size larger than a show type saddle because of it? I haven't yet sat in one like that because they're hard to find in Maryland. Still can't decide on cheyenne roll or none...
I wonder if the exposed stirrup leathers would wear more on the fende or be harder to clean? I'm not sure yet which look I prefer.
Liam, I think I'm going with a maker that has a great price, as I have few $$$ to spend. I'll email you the link, don't want to publicize it. He says he works with 2 tree companies (not sure which ones yet, will ask we we speak on the phone next week), uses Hermann oak and real sheepskin. His saddles are pleasing to my eye. I have not seen one in person, however. I realize that this may be a gamble, but we shall see.
You guys here, on past posts, have certainly helped me learn alot about saddles.
Is a Mexican horn the wide low one? I've tried to find pics of one, haven't yet.
Oh, I like the wade trees because they seem lower and more out of the way. I used to ride English, and prefer a saddle that is not real restrictive, but still has structure.
Is the shovel cantle a pain? Am I going to want a seat size larger than a show type saddle because of it? I haven't yet sat in one like that because they're hard to find in Maryland. Still can't decide on cheyenne roll or none...
i'd also like to have that link as well...
thanks!
thanks!
I also used to ride jumpers and found the swells in a saddle gave a closer feel than sitting up there, with all that stuff under you and a drop off in front of you.
Swells at least give a little more of a front to that slick, bump in the log feeling a western saddle can have, after riding many years in english and race exercise saddles.
I will still today ride any other than a guarantee nice horse in my old english saddle, as I did to start all colts.
Comfort is in whatever you get used to.
Be sure you try different kinds of trees, don't go by looks alone.
Maybe you know several people that would let you sit on their saddles?
Any good saddler will let you try different used saddles, so you can tell more what feels best to you.
There is also much difference in the saddles themselves, how much of a rise the seat has and how narrow the twist.
As far as cantle, a cheyenne roll is nice to have, if a horse ever bucks you into it.![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
I would also look at what area you are riding in and try to match that style, as much as you may like of it, because there is generally a reason why that is best suited for that area.
Swells at least give a little more of a front to that slick, bump in the log feeling a western saddle can have, after riding many years in english and race exercise saddles.
I will still today ride any other than a guarantee nice horse in my old english saddle, as I did to start all colts.
Comfort is in whatever you get used to.
Be sure you try different kinds of trees, don't go by looks alone.
Maybe you know several people that would let you sit on their saddles?
Any good saddler will let you try different used saddles, so you can tell more what feels best to you.
There is also much difference in the saddles themselves, how much of a rise the seat has and how narrow the twist.
As far as cantle, a cheyenne roll is nice to have, if a horse ever bucks you into it.
I would also look at what area you are riding in and try to match that style, as much as you may like of it, because there is generally a reason why that is best suited for that area.
My husband's boss has a Jerry Croft "Quigley" saddle he's lending to me for the weekend. I'm scared to ride in it!!! I can't imagine what it cost him; he's forgotten...yea, he has $$$.
No one but one guy around here has another saddle like this. We are in major Hunter-Jumper territory, and those who aren't are reiners or WP folk mostly. I'm selling my two reining saddles to get this one.
Sorrely, I'm thinking the same on the cheyenne roll. I had equitation english saddle once, and any time I got left and landed on that thing...OW!!!
No one but one guy around here has another saddle like this. We are in major Hunter-Jumper territory, and those who aren't are reiners or WP folk mostly. I'm selling my two reining saddles to get this one.
Sorrely, I'm thinking the same on the cheyenne roll. I had equitation english saddle once, and any time I got left and landed on that thing...OW!!!
Melelio, if I read that right and you have to use a rear cinch for the saddle to set down then the saddle doesn't fit the pony. With a saddle that fits right, you ought to be able to sit in the saddle , on the horse, without either cinch, and feel ok. If ya sit on the uncinched saddle and it wobbles, one end sets up or slides around, it's a poor fit. Now I'm not telling you to ride, just sit.
Also IMO, if you're having a saddle made, before any leather is put on the tree, the tree should be set on the pony to check for fit. If the tree doesn't fit, the saddle won't fit.
Also IMO, if you're having a saddle made, before any leather is put on the tree, the tree should be set on the pony to check for fit. If the tree doesn't fit, the saddle won't fit.
Mike, you are correct. I haven't had a saddle that truly fits my horses' body type yet, and they're longer (my guys have short backs) so to keep an 'even keel' I've always used flank cinches.
I hope I can fit the tree first. I'm going to try for that, but if not, I'll try a cast maybe, if I can get the stuff for it. I'll know more when I talk to the builder.
I hope I can fit the tree first. I'm going to try for that, but if not, I'll try a cast maybe, if I can get the stuff for it. I'll know more when I talk to the builder.
Melelio,
I'd like the link, too. Why not publicize someone if you like their work?
jan
I'd like the link, too. Why not publicize someone if you like their work?
jan
Hi Jan,
I'm not sure about the maker yet. I have a bunch of questions to ask of him before I think he can do what I'd like. I think, after reading everything here, the links rovided on other posts, and a couple good ones I found myself, that I know EXACTLY waht I want now.
My husband's boss allowed me to try a "Quigley" saddle he'd had made last year by Jerry Croft of Deadwood, SD. His stuff I can tell you unequivocally is EXCELLENT! And out of my price range LOL
Once I talk with the maker tonight, I'll have a better feel, and I'll put up the link. I hate to steer anyone wrong without having done my homework first.
And I decided on non-exposed leathers since sometimes I might ride in shorts, and I think they'd pinch my leg![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I'm not sure about the maker yet. I have a bunch of questions to ask of him before I think he can do what I'd like. I think, after reading everything here, the links rovided on other posts, and a couple good ones I found myself, that I know EXACTLY waht I want now.
My husband's boss allowed me to try a "Quigley" saddle he'd had made last year by Jerry Croft of Deadwood, SD. His stuff I can tell you unequivocally is EXCELLENT! And out of my price range LOL
Once I talk with the maker tonight, I'll have a better feel, and I'll put up the link. I hate to steer anyone wrong without having done my homework first.
And I decided on non-exposed leathers since sometimes I might ride in shorts, and I think they'd pinch my leg
i have a billy cook wade saddle and i like it accept the horn is mex. it makes it a little hard to dally. i also found that it is a little hard to keep hold of in some quick get off situations. but if you take a piece of leather or rope just long enough to go through the gullet and around beside the horn and leave yourself enough room to get your hand in there easily i like to call it my oh sh-- handle. by leather i mean a dog collar or something similar. it also is a slick seat which i did'nt think i would like but if you fit your saddle it's not bad at all. chinks or chaps come in handy though.
quote:I couldnt find any pictures of them, probably because mexican charros are all out using theres but yea thats kinda what they are. Watch the Magnificent 7 they have them on there
Originally posted by Melelio:
Is a Mexican horn the wide low one? I've tried to find pics of one, haven't yet.
maybe this helps
Thanks. I decided on a cowhorse or reiner horn, since I want as little as possible in my way. There will be no roping from my saddle ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Maybe a ponying or two, but that's it.
Saddle delivery date is tentatively around March 17!!!! I'll post pics when it gets here.
Maybe a ponying or two, but that's it.Saddle delivery date is tentatively around March 17!!!! I'll post pics when it gets here.
Hey Melelio,
so you decided on a metal horn... guess that means you're not getting a Wade tree now? What did you decide on?
D.
so you decided on a metal horn... guess that means you're not getting a Wade tree now? What did you decide on?
D.
yep, the mex is a wide one. that's why i said that about the strap through the gullet. you can hold on to the strap eaiser than the horn.
Nope, I'm still getting technically a Wade, but changing the horn out. There's a dilly of one that I'm having it modeled against, with a similar horn, but still a Wade, but with more cutaway skirts, a bit more 'stylish' or 'girly' if you choose
I just prefer less stuff near my hands. I'm a previous English rider, and really have never gotten used to things near my hands. I can deal with the reiner horns I've had on my previous saddles, though, even though sometimes I still get a rein hung up when getting my hands too low.
This is really more of a hybrid saddle, I guess. It'll be interesting to see how close the maker gets to what I was thinking of. I did drawings as well as sending pics of other saddles that I liked with the features I hoped for. He's been real good with me on saying he can do all the modifications to his basic Wade style, so I'm game for whatever he can do. I'll be sure to post pics when I get it.
I just prefer less stuff near my hands. I'm a previous English rider, and really have never gotten used to things near my hands. I can deal with the reiner horns I've had on my previous saddles, though, even though sometimes I still get a rein hung up when getting my hands too low.
This is really more of a hybrid saddle, I guess. It'll be interesting to see how close the maker gets to what I was thinking of. I did drawings as well as sending pics of other saddles that I liked with the features I hoped for. He's been real good with me on saying he can do all the modifications to his basic Wade style, so I'm game for whatever he can do. I'll be sure to post pics when I get it.
Hi Melelio,
Technically, what you are getting is a slick fork with a metal horn... with someone telling you it's a Wade. As soon as you get rid of the wood post horn, you no longer have a Wade tree or the benefits it's known for.
Myself and a few other saddlemakers have addressed this in previous posts but I will mention again a few aspects that make a Wade a Wade and why they create the benefits they do.
First a Wade is made up of a fork that has a 5" fork stock thickness (the top of the fork measured from the front lip to the back side of the horn). This measurement is taken before the tree is rawhided and anything less than 5"s is something other than a wade. Next, the wood post horn is an integral part of the fork... by this I mean that it is not screwed onto the fork... it is part of the wood laminations that makes up the fork (see attached photo). This is important because the wood post horn has tremendous strength which allows the gullet of the fork to be thinned out and lowered closer to the horse. The purpose of doing this is to lower the overall height of the horn and reduce the angle a rope comes off the horn. This in turn reduces the leverage on the saddle when roping and makes it a little easier on the horse.
As soon as you screw a horn onto a fork, you require that the thickness of the fork through the gullet area be a minimum of 1 1/2"s thick to accomodate the screws that hold the horn to the fork. This makes for a thicker gullet than the same fork with a wood post, meaning that the horn and fork now sits higher over the withers and negates the benefits of a true Wade tree.
Because a true Wade tree has such a thick fork stock (5"s) and sits so low, the bars must also be changed to accomodate it. They change a little in shape at the front (appear to flare more) and they also dip down lower... this creates more surface area and helps spread the weight of the rider a little better.
I can't comment on the maker you have chosen but there are a considerable number of saddlemakers who either don't know what constitutes a Wade tree or they are willing to tell you anything to make a sale. As factory made Wade saddles go, there are very few that even come close to fitting the bill, but they use the name.
trying to capitalize on the trend.
Technically, what you are getting is a slick fork with a metal horn... with someone telling you it's a Wade. As soon as you get rid of the wood post horn, you no longer have a Wade tree or the benefits it's known for.
Myself and a few other saddlemakers have addressed this in previous posts but I will mention again a few aspects that make a Wade a Wade and why they create the benefits they do.
First a Wade is made up of a fork that has a 5" fork stock thickness (the top of the fork measured from the front lip to the back side of the horn). This measurement is taken before the tree is rawhided and anything less than 5"s is something other than a wade. Next, the wood post horn is an integral part of the fork... by this I mean that it is not screwed onto the fork... it is part of the wood laminations that makes up the fork (see attached photo). This is important because the wood post horn has tremendous strength which allows the gullet of the fork to be thinned out and lowered closer to the horse. The purpose of doing this is to lower the overall height of the horn and reduce the angle a rope comes off the horn. This in turn reduces the leverage on the saddle when roping and makes it a little easier on the horse.
As soon as you screw a horn onto a fork, you require that the thickness of the fork through the gullet area be a minimum of 1 1/2"s thick to accomodate the screws that hold the horn to the fork. This makes for a thicker gullet than the same fork with a wood post, meaning that the horn and fork now sits higher over the withers and negates the benefits of a true Wade tree.
Because a true Wade tree has such a thick fork stock (5"s) and sits so low, the bars must also be changed to accomodate it. They change a little in shape at the front (appear to flare more) and they also dip down lower... this creates more surface area and helps spread the weight of the rider a little better.
I can't comment on the maker you have chosen but there are a considerable number of saddlemakers who either don't know what constitutes a Wade tree or they are willing to tell you anything to make a sale. As factory made Wade saddles go, there are very few that even come close to fitting the bill, but they use the name.
trying to capitalize on the trend.
Darcy is absolutely right! The wade tree is probably the most bastardized tree around, everyone and thier dog seems to be building one yet few look like what a wade was designed to look like.
Walt Youngman and Bill Dorance are probably loking down on us from above and shaking thier heads at what the "sheepole" are doing. Greg
Walt Youngman and Bill Dorance are probably loking down on us from above and shaking thier heads at what the "sheepole" are doing. Greg
These other saddle makers are bang on, nowadays it seems on the "factory made" end of saddle trees that anything that is a slick fork the treemakers/saddlemakers are calling is a wade, which is not true. If that's the case then lets call every swell fork an association. It just doesn't make sense. To see an example of this have a close look at Tom Dorrance's original wade saddle, notice how low the fork is on Dorrance's saddle and notice the 5" stock thickness (the distance from front to back on the swell) the 5" stock can easilly be seen by how much lip is in front of the horn. then compare is to many of the so called wades that are manufactured today.
Tom Dorrance's wade
Here is a link with a little history on the wade tree (the photo above is from this website) http://www.cowboyshowcase.com/wade_saddle.htm
Tom Dorrance's wade
Here is a link with a little history on the wade tree (the photo above is from this website) http://www.cowboyshowcase.com/wade_saddle.htm
I appreciate the info. I know I've deviated from what it 'should' be, but that was my choice. I guess I shouldn't now call it a Wade, so I'll refrain.
Gotta say I really didn't care for the post horn at all, so this, as I mentioned, will be a 'hybrid'
Gotta say I really didn't care for the post horn at all, so this, as I mentioned, will be a 'hybrid'
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